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4 Redenen om Geen Wei te Gebruiken in Groenten Fermenten

Last Updated on maart 8, 2016 by 1.811 Comments

In het boekje ‘Melkzuurgisting bij u Thuis’ van Annelies Schöneck en het boekje ‘Melkzuurgisting‘ van Roos van Hoof wordt wei gebruikt bij het fermenteren van groenten en ook in het boek Nourishing Traditions wordt wei aangeraden om een fermentatie in gang te zetten.

En zo deed ik dat in het begin dus ook braaf, zo moest het immers toch? Helaas vielen die fermenten vaak wat tegen, ze waren niet echt lekker

 

Echt Eten ferments
Rode bietenkvass en zuurkool

 

Een heleboel ferments heb ik daarom een tijdlang gelaten voor wat ze waren, want als ik het niet lekker vind, wordt het hier toch niet gegeten, ik ben nog steeds de enige thuis die mijn groenten- en fruitferment experimenten eet. Heel lang heb ik het maar gehouden op melkkefir, verschillende yoghurt culturen, kombucha en soms waterkefir.

 

Echt Eten Kombucha
Kombucha

 

 

Toch geniet ik, nu ik GAPS doe en iedere dag zuurkool(sap) of andere gefermenteerde groenten moet eten of drinken, volop van mijn fermenten.

En dat komt doordat ik geen wei meer gebruik bij het fermenteren, lees hier waarom, de 4 redenen om geen wei te gebruiken:

 

 

1. Verkeerde bacteriën

Ergens op een Amerikaans blog las ik een keer dat het helemaal niet zo logisch is om wei te gebruiken. De bacteriën in de melk die de melk omzetten naar een product als yoghurt of kefir, zijn melk bacteriën die van lactose houden en van een heel ander soort dan de bodembacteriën die op groenten zitten! In groenten en fruit zit geen lactose, dus is dat niet de optimale voeding voor deze ‘buggies‘.

Update: Een oplettende lezer wees me erop dat er ook yoghurtculturen worden gemaakt uit planten, daar zijn verschillende voorbeelden van te vinden. De meningen zijn hier dus over verdeeld. 

 

2. Smaak

Zoals ik al zei, vond ik mijn eerste experimenten niet echt een succes, gewoon niet echt lekker. Misschien moest ik wennen aan de smaak, dacht ik eerst nog. Toen ik echter het boek Wild Fermentation van Sandor Katz in huis had en daaruit kimchi ging maken, realiseerde ik me dat hij ook geen wei gebruikt en die ferments waren wel lekker, echt lekker!

 

3.Textuur

Het is me opgevallen dat bij gebruik van wei, het ferment vaak een stuk zachter is, soms zelfs papperig wordt. Vermoedelijk gaat de fermentatie meteen te snel van start. Vooral als er weinig of geen zout wordt gebruikt bij het fermenteren gebeurt dit. In de eerder genoemde boekjes wordt aangeraden altijd wei te gebruiken indien je geen zout wenst te gebruiken. Ik zou eerder aanraden gewoon wel zout te gebruiken, maar dan wel keltisch zeezout. Dit is een gezond zout wat je probleemloos kunt eten, ook bij een hoge bloeddruk, levert ook nog eens extra mineralen en het komt de smaak zeer ten goede.

Als je ferment door het gebruik van wei papperig is geworden, is deze ook gevoeliger voor schimmels!

 

4. Je slaat een fase over

Het fermentatie proces gaat verschillende fasen door. In de eerste fase duurt een dag of 3 en daarin wordt de aanwezige zuurstof opgebruikt en daalt de zuurgraad. Had je nou aan het begin wei toegevoegd, was de zuurgraad bij aanvang al laag geweest, terwijl in plaats van dat de bacteriën daar voor moeten zorgen. Je voegt met de wei bacteriën uit een eindfase toe en die horen eigenlijk niet bij de start. De bacteriën uit de eerste fase kunnen daardoor hun werk niet goed meer doen. Al met al, je brengt de verschillende fasen van fermenteren in de war.

 

Ondanks deze 4 redenen, zijn er toch een aantal fermenten die niet zonder starter kunnen, dat zijn bijvoorbeeld mayonaise, ketchup en frisdranken. Ketchup heb ik nog niet geprobeerd te maken. Mayonaise wel, maar hier vindt niemand de zelfgemaakte mayo lekker, met of zonder wei, ik moet nog eens gaan uitproberen met andere oliën.

 

Echt Eten gember bug
Gember bug

 

Met frisdrank krijg je toch echt het probleem van de smaak, maar daar heb ik nu wat op gevonden: Gemberbug!

 

Een fermentatiestarter waarmee je de heerlijkste gezonde frisdranken kunt maken. Zelfs de kinderen vinden het heerlijk, dus een prachtige manier om ook bij hen wat probiotica naar binnen te krijgen 🙂

Volgende week zal ik het recept van de bug geven, dus houd de site in de gaten, of schrijf je in voor mijn
nieuwsbrief, zodat je niks hoeft te missen.

 

 

 

*Als je de links in mijn artikel gebruikt om producten aan te schaffen, verdien ik soms een kleine bijdrage. Ik zal echter enkel en alleen producten en winkels aanraden waar ik zelf volledig achter sta. Jouw aankoop helpt mij weer om meer onderzoek te kunnen doen en deze site verder uit te bouwen.

 

Comments

  1. Hoi Iris,

    Ik heb de laatste jaren ook heel wat geëxperimenteerd met fermenteren en ik gebruik ook lang niet altijd wei wanneer dat in het recept staat. Ik gebruik wel vaak vocht van iets wat ik eerder gefermenteerd heb. O.a. bij tomatenketchup. (dat maak ik regelmatig in allerlei varianten – ik vind het heerlijk! – dus kan ik je echt aanraden om ook ’s te proberen 😉 ) En soms gebruik ik ook waterkefir, maar dat werkt niet altijd goed. En veel dingen maak ik zonder starter.

    De 4 punten die je beschrijft kloppen denk ik in grote lijnen wel, maar ik heb er ook een paar ‘maren’ bij.

    Over die verkeerde bacteriën:
    Ik heb dit ook gelezen, maar vraag me af of dat wel helemaal klopt. Je kunt bv een heerlijke yoghurtstarter maken van paprikastelen of rode-peperstelen. En er zijn meer planten waarmee je dat soort dingen kan doen. En die yoghurtstarter is niet eenmalig. Echt een goeie, blijvende starter. (ik doe er al máánden mee) Dus dan lijkt me dat er toch op die groente melkzuurbacteriën zitten die ook goed met lactose uit de voeten kunnen. Ik denk dan ook dat het onderscheid wat minder strak is dan het op dat blog omschreven werd.

    En over de zuurgraad:
    Ik denk dat dat erg meevalt. Meestal is het zo’n 4 el wei of andere starter op een liter ferment. Dat is flink verdund, dus zo heel zuur is het gelijk nog niet. Ik denk dat het er daarbij ook meer om gaat om bacteriën toe te voegen dan om het gelijk flink zuur te maken. De bacteriën moeten er dan vervolgens voor zorgen dat het snel genoeg zuur wordt om foute bacteriën voor te zijn.

    Groetjes, Els
    PS: mocht je interesse hebben in mijn favoriete ketchup-recept, laat maar even weten.

    Beantwoorden

    • Dag Els,
      Mijn fermenteeravontuur is pas vorige week begonnen. Dan laat ik even de zuurkool buiten beschouwing die ik al mijn hele leven maak.
      Heb voor het eerst courgettes geprobeerd, kom er op dit moment in om, vandaar. Het is heerlijk! Nu staan bietjes lekker te worden.
      Ik schrijf je vanwege je ketchuprecept. Jaarlijks hebben wij heel veel tomaten in allerlei soorten en maten. Ik maak gekruide puree, de kleintjes pof ik met knoflook, kruiden en olijfolie in de oven, kortom tal van toepassingen. Je snap dat ik erg benieuwd ben naar je ketchuprecept.
      Ik zou het erg fijn vinden om dat recept te mogen ontvangen. Mocht het wat kosten, dan lees ik dat graag eerst even.
      De discussie over wei is voor mij nog een brug te ver. Net gisteren heb ik lekkere biologische yoghurt gekocht om te laten uitlekken en de wei ergens voor te gebruiken.
      Met groet van een verfent kookster en een nog ferventer natuurliefhebster.
      Jose vleeming
      P.s. Ik heb mijn website verpmeld. Die heeft niets met koken van doen, maar is een digitale krant over de liemers, de streek waar ik woon.

      Beantwoorden

      • Ik fermenteer inmiddels ook ketchup, alweer een tijd, heb er zelfs een kleien workshop over gegeven. Het enige wat ik me nog afvraag, misschien weet jij dat Els, is hoe je kunt voorkomen dat het gaat gisten? Tomaten bevatten natuurlijk best wat suikers en ik heb vaak gehad dat het echt gaat gisten i.p.v. melkzuurfermentatie dus, dat je dus ook flink alcohol krijgt en dat is niet lekker…

        Beantwoorden

  2. Hi Els,

    Dank je voor je kritische noot! ketchup ga ik zeer zeker een keer maken, zit al heel lang in de planning, zoals zoveel. Ik ga eerst mosterd eens proberen. Maak jij ketchup van tomatenpuree of van gezeefde tomaten? Ik wil graag je recept een keer proberen!

    Klinkt interessant, een yoghurtstarter van paprika- of rode-peperstelen! Daar heb ik ook wel oren naar. Komt dat uit dat nieuwe boek van Sandor Katz misschien?

    Het zal inderdaad wel kloppen dat het onderscheid minder strak is, wel interessant om achter te komen hoe dat nou precies zit!

    En ja, een starter voeg je toe opdat het sneller gaat, maar niet iedereen is daar van overtuigd dat dat ook moet of goed is. De zuurgraad zal inderdaad niet zo heel laag zijn met zo’n verdunning, maar wel lager en dat zal toch invloed hebben, denk ik. ik kwam ook tegen dat het niet traditioneel werd gedaan, wei toevoegen, maar ook daar plaatste iemand een kanttekening dat dat in Noord-Europa wel werd gedaan vroeger, dus ook dat is niet helemaal duidelijk en heb ik dus niet als argument toegevoegd 😉

    Beantwoorden

  3. Hallo,

    Bedankt voor de tip hierover. Ik heb vaak met wei dat het niet zo lekker is of niet echt goed lukt. Ik ga het ook gewoon met alleen keltisch zeezout proberen.

    Ik weet niet of je al een lekker mayonaise recept hebt, ik heb zelf ook tijden gezocht naar de juiste olie vanwege de bittere smaak en ik heb het nu helemaal gevonden. Thuis zijn ze er dol op. Ik zet hem er gewoon op (ook al is het een tijd geleden dat je dit hebt gepost), misschien kun je er wat mee.

    1 ei, 1 eidooier (kamertemperatuur), 1 a 1,5 el citroensap (limoen kan ook), tl mosterd, mespunt honing, beetje (herbemaren)zout, biologische zonnebloemolie van de supermarkt. Die is minder scherp van smaak. Hoewel de hoogwaardige bio olie uit de biowinkel vast nog gezonder is, vind ik die altijd te bitter, waardoor het niet lekker wordt.

    Alles behalve de olie in een hoge mengbeker doen en even goed mixen met de staafmixer. Dan voeg je langzaam olie toe terwijl je een op en neer gaande beweging maakt. Blijf olie toevoegen totdat je de juiste dikte hebt.
    Je kunt er dus wei bij doen, maar bij mij is die dan sneller bedorven dan zonder. Ik doe dat dus niet.

    Ik hoop dat je er wat aan hebt. Bedankt in elk geval voor de informatie.

    Groeten Jenn

    Beantwoorden

    • @jenn Ai, ik zie nu dat ik hier nog helemaal niet op heb gereageerd, mijn excuses daarvoor en hopelijk lees je dit nog….
      Dank je voor het mayonaise recept! Ik heb inmiddels zelf ook een recept waar ik erg happy mee ben met o.a. kokosolie. Het staat niet op mijn blog, omdat het in het Puur en Lekker Eten kookboek staat waaraan ik heb meegewerkt… In plaats van wei doe ik er wat kefir in en hij blijft heel lang goed.

      Beantwoorden

    • Wat bedoel je daar mee @rina-van-nuland, met ‘professioneel inlezen’? Mijn wei was gerust wel biologische, ik maak ‘m zelf van de rauwmelkse kefir of yoghurt die ik weer maak van rauwe BD melk, daar is heus niets mis mee. Ik hoor het overigens van veel mensen dat ze groenten fermenten met wei niet lekker vinden, het is ook niet traditioneel om het met wei te doen, tenminste niet in Oost-Europa bijvoorbeeld.

      Beantwoorden

  5. Hey Iris,

    Vandaag mijn eerste wortelen op zout water gezet maar ik vrees dat ik wat te weinig zout heb gebruikt. Wat gebeurt er dan? heb 2 eetlepels gebruikt van keltisch zout op anderhalve liter water….kan ik nu nog bij doen of gewoon zo laten? Het staat er nu 8 uur en heb geen dunne reepjes maar gehalveerde wortels gedaan want die bleven lekker bij elkaar gedrukt staan daar ik nog geen steen heb om te verzwaren….
    wanneer begint het proces ongeveer bij wortels?

    Beantwoorden

    • Hi Chantal, mijn excuses voor de late reactie. Het reageren op mijn blog is er de laatste tijd wat bij ingeschoten door de enorme mailstroom die ik dagelijks te verwerken krijg…
      Je hebt vast niet te weinig zout gebruikt. Ik gebruik meestal 1 el. op een liter. Als het zout smaakt, dan is het goed. Als je te weinig zout gebruikt, of helemaal geen zout, heb je eerder kans dat je ferment mislukt en foute bacteriën toch de overhand nemen. Te veel zout is niet alleen niet lekker, maar ook niet goed voor de lactobacteriën, want die kunnen wel een wat zoute omgeving verdragen, maar te is nooit goed natuurlijk 🙂

      Het proces bij wortels kan al na een dag opgang zijn gekomen. Hoe dikker de wortels, hoe langer het duurt eer ze helemaal goed gefermenteerd zijn. De beste indicatie is de smaak. Proef ze gewoon en als ze zuur beginnen te worden, dan zit je goed. Zuur genoeg, zet ze in de koelkast om het proces aanzienlijk te vertragen.

      Heb je hier nog wat aan?

      Beantwoorden

  6. Ik kan nergens vinden hoe je een fermentatiestarter maakt. Wat toch een belangrijk onderdeel is voor fermeteren. Zonder dat ontbreekt er soms iets heel belangrijks.

    Kan het ook niet vinden op google. Als ik wat is een fermentatiestarter google kom ik op hele rare andere dingen uit.

    Beantwoorden

    • Een fermentatiestarter is niks anders dan een aantal micro-organismen. Die kun je uit het wild halen, want die zitten in de lucht en op je groenten en fruit of kopen. Dat kun je dus doen door een zuurdesem op te zetten, kool te laten fermenteren, een gemberbug te starten etc. Als je ze koopt, moet je denken aan bijvoorbeeld verschillende gisten die voor het maken van wijn en bier gebruikt worden, yoghurt en andere melkfermenten, kefir, kombucha zwammen etc.

      Beantwoorden

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